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 Post subject: timing issue.
PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 9:55 pm 
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Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2009 2:28 pm
Posts: 101
Location: cincinnati ohio
k so I just got a new weber on my engine, along with a -009 distibutor and coil pack.so i started to time it by I put the number one cylinder on tdc,which will make both valves closed. I then set the distributor in the engine. all the spark plug wires are correct. i turned my igniton on and hit the starter. it fired up. but only ran on 2 cylinders. so i turned the distributor a very tiny amount. all it did after that was pop. i turned it the other way and all it did was back fire. i put the distriutor back to where it ran on 2 cylinders and backfired, wouldnt start up like it did 5 mins ago. what the hell am i doing wrong. its been a looonnnggg sunday, since i planned to take it for a little test ride :evil:
thanks in adavance for the help.
hauser


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 Post subject: Re: timing issue.
PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 10:14 pm 
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Location: Birmingham Alabama
Take off the rt valve cover. turn the motor over by hand clockwise until the no 1 exaust valve just starts to open . Then counter cw a little til the pulley timing mark is TDC.Now the rotor button for that no1 cylinder should be pointed at that wire.Start the spark plug wires going around the cap from there at 1-4-3-2 cw.Did you get moisture in the cap or is it cracked.Did you turn the gas petcock valve back on?Some wires brand new are not twisted into the sp. plug ends good. Lick your fingers and see which exaust headers are getting hot.If you have 2 cold ones on one side it is an intake leak.A cold one on each side sounds like timing off.


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 Post subject: Re: timing issue.
PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 10:34 pm 
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It sounds like you plug wires may be backwards on one side or an intake manifold loose on that one side. That is the only two that I can see wrong from my past experience that I had.

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 Post subject: Re: timing issue.
PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 10:41 pm 
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passat2800 wrote:
Take off the rt valve cover. turn the motor over by hand clockwise until the no 1 exaust valve just starts to open . Then counter cw a little til the pulley timing mark is TDC.Now the rotor button for that no1 cylinder should be pointed at that wire.Start the spark plug wires going around the cap from there at 1-4-3-2 cw.Did you get moisture in the cap or is it cracked.Did you turn the gas petcock valve back on?Some wires brand new are not twisted into the sp. plug ends good. Lick your fingers and see which exaust headers are getting hot.If you have 2 cold ones on one side it is an intake leak.A cold one on each side sounds like timing off.
do this and you will find the problem.a good way to check an intake leak is with ether.get it started. Shoot a little starter fluid around the boots/gaskets you will hear the motor pick up if it's sucking air.Chad :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: timing issue.
PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 10:54 pm 
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EVERY bug motor should have or make a vacuum port. A vacuum gauge can show you how healthy your motor is. By how the gauge bounces or stays steady you can tell intake leak,burnt or sticky valve,worn valve guides ,worn cam or bent push rod,or push rod heads smashed into rod,low compression, timing off , even a bad spark plug wire by the needle only bouncing one number.Did ya know a rocker arm foot should be slightly off center of the valve stem to keep the valve rotating to keep the seat and valve wearing uniformly?DO NOT force a valve out of the guide with a burred stem or intake damage and oil burning will occur to the soft bronze valve guide.READ up on valve train geometry when you change stroke,rod length, comp. ratio,cam, push rods, rockers or any changes other than stock and gain a few free hp.PER CYLINDER!The difference in cam grinds is only in thousands and when your lift is off by many thousands , what are you doing?Some people will say,"Oh it did not make that much of a difference to me!"That's because theirs was close to begin with.Some will say,Dammit! :lol:And after you do it with a set of un cut chromoly push rods, don't be changing up parts and specs!Pull up OUR RIDE SUNDAY under PICS and VIDEOS, 16th post down, vid 3and 4 and listen to my son Austin's black buggy with the a arms and homemade wheels, cut 38's and a 2180 single Dellorto.


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 Post subject: Re: timing issue.
PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 11:33 am 
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Location: cincinnati ohio
dang thanks for the quick replys. i will take a look once i have time. im hoping its an intake leak somewhere. and the button is not cracked. wires are brand new. plugs brand new. so when timing it should i leave the distirubor in the engine, take cap off , then tdc on #1?


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 Post subject: Re: timing issue.
PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 12:41 pm 
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Location: Wellsville, Ohio
are your valves adjusted correctly? Buddy of mine did this and sounds about like the same thing motor popped would run a lil but only on half. Set #1 tdc then rotate motor counter clockwise not clockwise that is what my buddy did

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 Post subject: Re: timing issue.
PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 11:10 pm 
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Location: cincinnati ohio
k well i finally got the son o bitch firing on all 4. I adjusted valves, checked for intake leaks. it ran good for about 20 mins. it idled great and reved strong. i shut it off to cool down a little. as it was cooling down i decided to move the distributor a smidge. i fired it back up and it ran like shit. i killed the engine and put it back to where it was. it then ran like shit again. i guess the next time i get it close il leave it there. it sounded great though.
so when i timed it i took the distributor cap off and right valve cover off. i rotated the flywheel counter clockwise until both valves were closed. i then move the distributor so i can alight it with the cap. is this correct/? cause after I messed up the timing again after it was running, i tried to retime it. i couldnt get it . haha this is getting pretty funny


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 Post subject: Re: timing issue.
PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 11:37 pm 
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Use a test lite that looks like a screwdriver with a wire on it. Clip it on the neg side of the coil and stick the pointy part in the Dellorto return spring.Remove the cap and rotate motor til the rotor points closest to the no 1 wire.Turn pulley until the 8 degree BTDC(Before Top Dead Center) notch is pointing straght up at the crankcase seam.The zero mark should be to the left now.Loosen the distributor clamp.Turn the switch to on. Turn the dist slowly to the right until you have no lite. Now rotate left til the lite JUST cracks open.Now lock it down.It should run if your points are gapped.Turn your switch off. You may have to drive it or set it with a timing lite at 3500 rpm at 30degrees btdc to get it perfect. Once you have it perfect, mark the dist base with a majic marker aligned with the case.


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 Post subject: Re: timing issue.
PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 11:52 pm 
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Coils can play games on their way out.The best way to check is remove a plug and put it back in the sp plug socket and have someone turn the motor over while holding the sp plug with pliers to a solid part of the buggy..A yellow spark is weak. A blue is good.Now with motor off and all 3 coil wires disconnected,get a test multimeter and set it on ohms.Touch the 2 wires to the pos and neg. 3 to 4.5 ohms is good. More is bad. Now either wire to the center of the coil. 9500 ohms to 10000 is good.11000 or more is bad.None is bad.Pull up Coil Testing On an Air Cooled VW


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 Post subject: Re: timing issue.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 12:26 am 
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Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2009 2:28 pm
Posts: 101
Location: cincinnati ohio
forgot to say, i did notice that drews gave me 2 wrong plugs. there very close though. i testsed , 2 plugs have yellow spark. 2 plugs have blue. i put the two plugs on the cold cylinders i had and they fired, maybe its my plugs? thanks passat you really know your shit, thanks for the paitince. you have really helped me out


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 Post subject: Re: timing issue.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 10:53 am 
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Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2009 2:28 pm
Posts: 101
Location: cincinnati ohio
finally got her going last night. boy was it cold. i timed it again. checked coil, , then i checked my plugs. boy were they foulded, and brand new . i cleaned all of them and it fired right up.. i do have a question if anyone on here has a single weber 40.
BTW thanks everyeone for your help
hauser


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 Post subject: Re: timing issue.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 11:08 pm 
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Location: cincinnati ohio
i think im running a tad bit rich, my plugs get black everytime i fire it up. if i let it cool down i have to clean them up again to get it fired...


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 Post subject: Re: timing issue.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 11:16 pm 
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Location: Birmingham Alabama
Read up on hot and cold range plugs. Compression makes fuel easier to lite off.I think I read once that your lucky if you get ignition below 60 psi.And of coarse too rich.Wider sp plug gaps will make a hot spark but you won't always GET a spark.And a glowing too hot plug will pre ignite and ping and damage your bearrings.So get the RIGHT plug and the right gap and enough octane. Glad to help.Just now read that a loose sp plug boot will give a weak spark.Makes sense.


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 Post subject: Re: timing issue.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 7:48 am 
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When in doubt. I take the boot off and clip a 1/2 " of wire and re- screw the wire back in. I've had to do this to new ones before.


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 Post subject: Re: timing issue.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 10:03 am 
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Sounds like low [uneven] compression to me, run a compression test.

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 Post subject: Re: timing issue.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 8:59 pm 
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Location: Birmingham Alabama
Don't yank on your spark plug wires. They will pull where the wires screw into the plastic and be loose.The clips can get weak. A loose spark plug wire will make the spark weak.Bad for rich fuel, bottom, mid and and top end and is intermittent.It will play games with a good motor.Take a welding rod or coat hanger and make a boot plucker tool out of it.Reach in thru the boot seal and pull it off!. My Passat book strongly advises not even tugging on them if you want good performance.And the straw and grass or rats nest, that collects around the spark plug, take a propane torch to them.


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 Post subject: Re: timing issue.
PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 12:21 pm 
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Location: cincinnati ohio
kk thanks everyone. did all the above. compression is good. it idles and revs great. i just think my idle mixutre is to fat. guess il go get some jets sometime


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 Post subject: Re: timing issue.
PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 12:28 am 
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Location: Ladysmith B.C. Canada
Did you solve the problem? I read this with interest as I'm having much the same problem. Done everything but the compression test so far. Did you say single Webber? Is it using stock end castings? My Dellorto book says that they are part of the carburation flaw that VW made. The end castings have different bend radious's front to rear. The rear being tighter, (more restricive ) is enough for fuel to drop out of suspension just enough that the rear cylinders will run colder. I guess that on duel Webber or Dellorto carbs this could also happen if not properly match ported.


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