oh i see i have cookie cutter

So I have one secret question to be revealed. Only one person actually mentioned a front to rear weight dist. ratio (30/70). Is that pretty much what everyone shoots for. I will probably be closer to (40/60) by initial estimates. I have access to race scales to play with my springs to jog the weight around a little more but I was just curious more than anything.

Gotta admit the frames are all custom made for each driver, at least Chucks are. But the engine, drivetrain and suspension parts are what I see as being more the cookie cutter parts. And yes, it does work very well, best setup out there already done and tested. Throw a second seat in it and it all seems to go out the window though. I personally like the way mine rides better with a passenger then without. Balance is probibly better.

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The best climbers seem to be around 31 to 37 percent up front but it is subjective. All this changes with ride height & center of gravity but if you shoot for 30 & you can't keep the nose down then you move the toolbox up front then the battery & even go to steel wheels instead of aluminum until you find your balance. It's easier to add weight up front than to remove it.

My single seater has a 110" wheelbase so at 30 percent I may be perfect. If I was 95" I might need 33 to 35 percent for good control. I built my purple buggy with an 81" wheelbase as an experiment & I needed extra weight up front because it offered very little leverage at that length. The farther out front the weight is the slower it comes up & the more time you get to react. That 81 incher came up as fast as you blink. Other factors affect it as well like 3x3 or 5x5 arms which dont really affect weight distribution but they significantly change the pivot point of the buggy.

My plan is to get the 1 seater assembled for a couple weekends of experimentation & moving things around before I break it down for powdercoat. That should keep me from grinding the paint to make changes that I should have caught beforehand.

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70/30 is a good estimate to start with, depending on wheelbase and suspension setup and trailing arm length both front and rear i would say (according to work and adjustments me and a few friends have made to a few buggies) that a "good " setup should end up in the 75/25 to 65/35 range depending on the setup/buggy

and like mentioned earlier, you can allways shift it to the front if need be, but if theres no room left in the rear during the build then its a lot harder to shift weight rearward

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Just Stand On It!!!!

Chris

Thats crazy talk. Tell that to helmetguy (Mike) who just this weekend blew out the top of the 2nd from the left at the oilwell at D&K in his two seater. Jumped 4feet high at least out the top of it. Tell Adam Bray that who follows Darrell and Charlie everywhere in his 2 seater. Now if you put two seats in it, a hundred pounds of gear on it, run 100 lb each wheels/tires, 80 lbs+ heavier engine, longer (=heavier) arms to make up for the motorweight, beefier suspension to handle that weight (beefier= more weight), THEN it all goes out the window. A 2 seater can be within 40-50 lbs of a 1 seater, and some are even lighter than some 1 seaters. If you need all the weight to have fun or feel safe, then so be it. Thats fine, whatever floats your own boat.
One seat, two side by side, two inline.......Doesnt matter. Keep it light, suspension soft (but not too soft), give it as much hp as its bite will handle without putting too much weight on it, gear it right and learn to drive it however its balanced. Do yall think if you build yours just like Darrell's, you are gonna climb like Darrell? OR Clayton? OR Lewis? OR Charlie? NO. On a dirt hill, they can get in just about any buggy and make its owner look like a rookie, no matter how its built. They climb (or climbed) very extreme shit EVERY WEEKEND for years and years. There is no mechanical formula to replace seat time or skill. (I have very little of either compared to a lot of folks, but it doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out why those guys are so good at what I like to try to do)

The coolest thing about 2 seaters is you get to ride folks around,,,folks that don't get to ride otherwise, I have taken my kids, friends,,,and sometimes single seater peoples kids,,I remember one time I got to ride Darrells daughter around,,she was cool. Cookie Cutter buggys are cool,,,they climb well , but on ride day the 2 seaters have twice the fun.

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If your clutch ain't slippin,, you probably got it adjusted right!!!!!

That is not correct. The length of the rear trailing arm has a lot to do with weight transfer, can't be any other way. Without doing a bunch of building and weighing to be able to say for sure. I would say for every inch longer the rear arms are, they would transfer (guessing) 25 lb forward. 5" longer arms would move 250lb forward, if 25lb per inch were to be correct. One of our "super climbers" had problems keeping his front end down while climbing with 2x3 arms and his Subie set up. Built a set of 4" longer arms, a little better but not right. Built a set of 5" longer arms and it would stay on the ground. Length of the arms does make a difference, has to, simple math says it will.

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Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most.
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let me see if i can remember this right.

1200lb buggy
100 inch wheel base
= 12lbs a inch

70/30 split
360 lbs on front
840 lbs on rear

same buggy
3x3's
67/33
396lbs on front
804lbs on rear


look right ?

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Ment the Balance does Larry. It cant be right with and without a passanger.

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NO. What your doing there is averaging your weight over length. What I was refering to was how much weight (again, just guessing) moves forward when the rear trailing arm gets longer in pounds per inch of extended trailing arm.
It would be a costly way to "fine tune" a suspension but a much better way than adding weight to the front end.
Example I just thought of. On a tractor trailer, most have the capability to slide their fifth wheel. The further forward it goes the more weight it puts on the steering axle. Slide it back and the weight transfers to the rear axle. Same thing for us.

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Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most.
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i re did the math Mike. but if you slide to trailer axles forward you put more weight on the rear of the trailer. taking weight off the tractor.

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Russ he is talking about the sliding Fith-Wheel hitch. Not the trailer tires.

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fifth wheel would be like moving the weight to the front or adding correct.
i'm saying use the weight you have and use the wheel base correct sound right.

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It's like the old altered wheel base cars of the sixties. They moved the axle forward almost to the door post. At the time it was the only way they could get that 900 lbs. of big block to transfer to the rear axle. The only difference is they were trying to lighten the nose and we are making ours heavier (to a point) as that allows us to transfer more horsepower without carrying the front wheels.

Im pretty sure when considering the weight transfer you have to consider the moment arm(s), the center of gravity and the un equal or equal arms involved. But i would have to pull my physics book out to see exactly...

Trailing arms all bolt in the same spot regardless of length & get the weight at that point. How can the weight change at the tires since the tires are not the centerline of the weight transfer to the rear, the front control arm pivot is? The actual weight at the rear is not hanging over the tires but is actually hanging over the pivot bolt. Longer arms essentially multiply leverage at the tires making the frontend harder to lift under power but don't shift actual weight forward.....OR DO THEY? Am I missing something?

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The longer the lever, the easier it is to lift an object.
You can tighten a nut alot tighter with a power handle, than you can with a rachet.
I alway like it when I have leverage over something or somebody.
Longer rear trailing arms transfer more weight to the front wheels.

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A good friend will bail you out of jail. A best friend will be sitting next to you saying: "Damn that was fun!"



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5wGMaUMXUQ

they do transfer weight forward, longer the arm the further you move your rear tires back therfore moving more of your rear weight forward

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lets just ride

But you aren't moving weight to the front, you made the lever 3 inches longer. The weight of the tires is still rear weight regardless of where you place them since they are unsprung weight. You are confusing leverage with sprung weight. Moving the tires to the rear only makes the frontend harder to lift, not heavier. If you weigh a buggy & then bolt a piece of flat aluminum to the lugs then bolt the wheels to that 1 foot back & re-weigh it the front/rear weights should not change by more than a couple pounds from the aluminum.

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true you are not actually adding weight to the front, but changing the pivot point or like you say leverage making the front harder to lift, we are on the same page with a dif language

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lets just ride

I think so too but the point I was making was sprung weight on the rear is measured at the torsion housing rather than the rear tires. I'm waiting for MadMike to chime back in brcause either he forgot that or I'm missing something.

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If you put 5 pounds on the end of a 5 foot pole it will take you 25 ft. pounds of force to lift it. If you make the pole 10 feet long it will take 50 ft. pounds force to lift it. It's still 5 pounds hanging out there either way. That's how longer arms keep the nose down.

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i agree with that

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lets just ride

All I can say is I HATE MATH! I gave it up when I jumped in a truck

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