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s-10 gearboxes http://woodsbuggy.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=210	Page 1 of 1

Author:	kybuggy1 [ Mon Apr 09, 2007 12:56 pm ]
Post subject:	s-10 gearboxes
I have seen a somewhat detailed discussion about using a manual steering box from an s-10 on SOME site, a while back. Cant remember where it was. Anybody here have any input on them? Is the lock-to-lock steering ratio any quicker than the 3 1/4 turns in a stock k/p box? Are they bad heavy? I dont mind switching out a busted box now and then , but my old buggy had a Grand Am rack and a b/j front end on it (and still does), and I miss the quicker ratio. But they are too damn heavy. And my new frame is powdercoated, so I'm not about to weld and grind on it to make mounts for a Saco or any other rack. Should've had it set up for a nice rack before powdercoating, but simpler is better usually, so I wanted to go with a box. Thanks, Larry

Author:	Blake [ Mon Apr 09, 2007 1:34 pm ]
Post subject:
We all run the S-10 box. I also run a ball joint front. The ratio seems about the same as a stock box, but is easier to turn, especially in a bind. And they are hard to break, haven't broken one yet in our group. But, you'll definetly need to do some grinding to your powdercoat, they need MONSTER mounts. As we've found the hard way, they need to be very, very, strong mounts from a few directions. I'll try and post some pics tomorrow, maybe Aaron will tonight of his. -Blake

Author:	DVS1 [ Mon Apr 09, 2007 1:54 pm ]
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My last buggy had an S-10 manual steering box because it was getting hard to find another vw box every other trip. I think it was something like 2 1/2 turns from left to right. I rode for 4 years and never broke the box. Broke the mounts a few times but the box was as solid as day one. It was a very solid steering but had no give, by that I mean I had to hold the wheel loosly because the weakest link of the steering was my hands. I couldn't tell you how many times I had hit a tree and felt like it ripped my thumbs off. What I did was took the steering arm off and turned the arm upside down for clearance then 180 degree the arm so the arm faced the front of the buggy so there wasn't this big obnoxious box hanging off the front of the buggy. Cut the single hole end off and cut the vw arm double hole end off and welded it to the S-10 arm so it accepted stock vw ends. I mounted the box about a foot back from the front end to where about the stock box pivot point was and mounted it. It's pretty time consuming but in the end you will have a bullit proof steering box

Author:	Roy [ Mon Apr 09, 2007 4:44 pm ]
Post subject:
Oh comon Larry, go ahead and grind into that fresh powdercoat! You know you want to....... Roy

Author:	D. Marks [ Mon Apr 09, 2007 8:01 pm ]
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I bought one from Latest Rage 4 years ago and it works great. I paid about $140 for it. It did require a little grinding to get enough turning radius.. Not much bumpsteer, and wheels turn all the way stop to stop in about 1.25 turns. I love it.

Author:	kybuggy1 [ Mon Apr 09, 2007 10:48 pm ]
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[quote='Roy']Oh comon Larry, go ahead and grind into that fresh powdercoat! You know you want to....... Roy[/quote] Roy,Ummmmm......let me think..............umm.................... NO! Not yet. Thanks for the info, guys!! Larry

Author:	kybuggy1 [ Mon Apr 09, 2007 10:57 pm ]
Post subject:
[quote='D. Marks']I bought one from Latest Rage 4 years ago and it works great. I paid about $140 for it. It did require a little grinding to get enough turning radius.. Not much bumpsteer, and wheels turn all the way stop to stop in about 1.25 turns. I love it.[/quote] Dean, one what? A rack? 1.25 turns sounds awesome! That might be worth getting into the powdercoat! Didnt know they made such a critter. The painter (my cousin-in-law) at the bodyshop I work at HAS gotten pret

Author:	The Wild Kids [ Tue Apr 10, 2007 12:31 am ]
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KYbuggy1, I think Leatherneck on the other site is one that uses a S10 steering box. I remember him mentioning it before. We tried the caviler rack and it wasn't strong enough to handle the stress of offroad. The Wild Kids

Author:	kybuggy1 [ Tue Apr 10, 2007 1:27 am ]
Post subject:
Thanks everybody for the info on the s-10 boxes. It sounds like I'd be doing more grinding and welding to get one of those dudes tied down than I would a nice rack. Thats definately the sucky part about powdercoat. If it was my old two-Beater frame I wouldnt give a crap. But, then again, I wouldnt ask first either. I'd just try it and see how it worked out. Couldn't of hurt that thing! Actually , it wasn't that bad of a chassis, just old news now! Larry

Author:	D. Marks [ Tue Apr 10, 2007 8:31 pm ]
Post subject:
Hers a pic of my rack. No need to get into the powdercoat...unless you powdercoated your beam.

Author:	kybuggy1 [ Tue Apr 10, 2007 9:13 pm ]
Post subject:
Thats sweet!! I did powdercoat the beam, but I can live with getting into it. Calling Tim to order one right now. He is a Latest Rage dealer. Larry

Author:	Roy [ Tue Apr 10, 2007 9:19 pm ]
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This is my set up. Buy the bracket (mount) when you buy the rack. It will save you time making one and they are fairly cheap. Let us know when you get it and I will post a pic of the modifications you need to do to it to make it better. Roy

Author:	kybuggy1 [ Tue Apr 10, 2007 10:22 pm ]
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Do you know if thats the same rack as Dean's? 1.25 turns, lock to lock? There's a blue million options of them on all the catalog sites from $100-$180. Center load racks work out the best? That install looks clean, too. Wonder if using that factory bracket will work out to give me a decent tie rod angle with extended front trailing arms. Dont guess 2" back at the spindle end would make much difference anyways. Could always extend the bracket back a little I guess.

Author:	Roy [ Wed Apr 11, 2007 4:51 am ]
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I've got longer arms on my car and it's ok. I think my rack is the same as Deans. Just a plain old "economy rack" They range from 140 to 180 depending on who you get it from. I was kinda skeptical about using one of these at first but after running one for a while now, I am saying they are decent. It "was" about one turn lock to lock BUT it would not turn the wheels enough, so, with some mods. it now turns like it needs to and the ratio is about 1.5 lock to lock. Roy

Author:	kybuggy1 [ Wed Apr 11, 2007 12:41 pm ]
Post subject:
I called Tim to price one, and he said he's sold several and more than half of the people running them complained that they make the wheels try to jerk out of your hand pretty bad. Hard on hands and wrists. One guy rigged up double stock steering dampners with it, and got rid of most of the problem. Did you notice it very bad? Could just be the rest of their setups affecting it , too.(Tall tires, wheels with too much offset, etc.) Larry

Author:	Roy [ Wed Apr 11, 2007 1:41 pm ]
Post subject:
[quote='kybuggy1']I called Tim to price one, and he said he's sold several and more than half of the people running them complained that they make the wheels try to jerk out of your hand pretty bad. Hard on hands and wrists. One guy rigged up double stock steering dampners with it, and got rid of most of the problem. Did you notice it very bad? Could just be the rest of their setups affecting it , too.(Tall tires, wheels with too much offset, etc.) Larry[/quote] When I first i

Author:	A. Cole [ Wed Apr 11, 2007 4:23 pm ]
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I installed the econo rack last year and think its great, though it did make my pinky finger bleed after the wheel was ripped from my hand. I did put a dampner on it this winter but havn't had it out yet. I used a stock bus dampner made by Cofab, it had to limit my steering because of the amount of travel it has. I found a stock beetle one that has actualy about an inch more of travel. I've kinda put the dampner thing on hold till I figure out what I want to do with it. Though I need the get it done soon.

Author:	kybuggy1 [ Wed Apr 11, 2007 5:10 pm ]
Post subject:
[quote='Roy'][quote='kybuggy1']I called Tim to price one, and he said he's sold several and more than half of the people running them complained that they make the wheels try to jerk out of your hand pretty bad. Hard on hands and wrists. One guy rigged up double stock steering dampners with it, and got rid of most of the problem. Did you notice it very bad? Could just be the rest of their setups affecting it , too.(Tall tires, wheels with too much offset, etc.) Larry[/quote:9620

Author:	mudd mutt [ Sun Apr 15, 2007 3:21 am ]
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[quote='D. Marks']Hers a pic of my rack. No need to get into the powdercoat...unless you powdercoated your beam. [/quote] Dean I thought your car had a "Wright Place"rack in it up at NOORA? What happened to it?

Author:	bruce 1 [ Sun Apr 15, 2007 8:38 am ]
Post subject:	steering box
I used to break my steering all the time. I changed from 31" tall tires on the front to the traction implemet front tire mabey 26" tall. And changed to the stock front beatle wheels. And put a good TRW box up there and now have been driving it for a year with no problems. Lost a few inches of travel but at least I have not broke in 1 year. Bruce

Author:	D. Marks [ Sun Apr 15, 2007 12:05 pm ]
Post subject:
[quote='mudd mutt'][quote='D. Marks']Hers a pic of my rack. No need to get into the powdercoat...unless you powdercoated your beam. [/quote] Dean I thought your car had a "Wright Place"rack in it up at NOORA? What happened to it?[/quote] This is all I've ever had. I had a stock box fail me once and bought this.

Author:	Odyknuck [ Wed May 02, 2007 3:48 pm ]
Post subject:
Roy The steering issue you were experiencing is call the Scrub radius. When using a rim offset that does not put the centerline of the wheel over the spindle axis it requires a wkole lot more leverage to turn the wheels. Also in reverse it adds a lot of leverage when you hit ruts and rocks hence the snap your wrist feed back. Not to mention the steerng justplain sucks. I race Single seat Pilots and what a difference it made when I played around with different wheel offsets. The feedback and control are exponeiated at higher speeds.

Author:	Roy [ Wed May 02, 2007 7:04 pm ]
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Thanks for the information. I knew it had a term for it.

Author:	MadMike [ Thu May 03, 2007 8:31 pm ]
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Also worth mentioning. On the stock VW link/king pin set up the horizontal centerline of the spindle is about 3/8" back from the vertical centerline of the king pin. This rearward set back helps reduce the effects of scrub steer. If you have combo spindles, the spindle and king pin centerlines are in line with each other giving a more direct feedback at the steering wheel. If the spindle centerline were to be in front of the king pin, the feedback would be wrist breaking. Wheel offset is important even more so with aftermarket parts. If someone were to be having a hard time with scrub steer, increase the wheel's offset, moving the wheel in will reduce the effect.

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