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| Power steering question. Opinions welcome http://woodsbuggy.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=15186 |
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| Author: | Red Barron [ Tue Apr 02, 2013 6:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Power steering question. Opinions welcome |
Ok guys I know there are threads addressing this subject but I have an existing Saco HD rack an am trying to decide if ram style or Charyln style would work best. I have a powder coated frame and would really like to avoid to much grinding and welding on it. I thought about electric but it just seems sort of messy with all the wiring and control units.  here is a phot showing the steering.
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| Author: | MickeyMouse [ Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Power steering question. Opinions welcome |
People who have power steering love it and swear by it.. However, I never had an issue with my rack.. |
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| Author: | fortydegnorth [ Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Power steering question. Opinions welcome |
I've never tried the Charlyn but I have read where they can potentially be hard on the rack. No idea if that is true or proven. I have a Saco rack with a ram and servo. My pump is a Sweet rated at 1300psi. I can steer it just like a civic. It's very easy to steer with one hand or even a couple fingers. Sitting still it is still easy to turn the wheel. So far I'm very happy. The Charlyn is used a lot so I'd guess they must work very well too. I think you get less feel with the Charlyn. I know some use the stock Honda pump but it won't work with the intake flipped like you have it. I'd say you could mount the stock pump low like I did and get it to work. |
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| Author: | RaceBugg1098 [ Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Power steering question. Opinions welcome |
I love the charlynn, but the ram servo setup was more or less made for what you want. the charlynn was something someone figured out a long time ago and at that time was the best/cheapest option. if you have a good saco rack, you wont have any issues with it holding up to a charlynn, however I have seen plenty of the cheap "off-road" racks destroyed by it. either way will make you happy, guess it just depends on what you want to spend or how much you enjoy tinkering to make the charlynn happy. |
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| Author: | Odyknuck [ Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Power steering question. Opinions welcome |
Both Electric and the Charlyyn torque Mutiplier transmit the load thru the rack. The Servo/Ram system does not. The Electric is the weakest and the Servo/Ram system is the strongest. The Charlynn is twitchy the other two are not. The Electic is the easyest system to Install and the Servo/Ram is the most complicated. They all work and have their good and bad points. IMHO the Servo/Ram system is the best overall. |
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| Author: | davehix [ Wed Apr 03, 2013 1:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Power steering question. Opinions welcome |
I've had both servo and ram and a charlynn . for the woods i like the charlynn . but i think the servo ram set up would be better for the street. |
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| Author: | Red Barron [ Wed Apr 03, 2013 1:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Power steering question. Opinions welcome |
Can some of the guys that run servo and ram send some photos or post. I am on a tight budget but with the WC engine running power steering make a lot of sense and would prevent broken fingers. |
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| Author: | Odyknuck [ Wed Apr 03, 2013 2:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Power steering question. Opinions welcome |
davehix wrote: I've had both servo and ram and a charlynn . for the woods i like the charlynn . but i think the servo ram set up would be better for the street. Why, curious minds want to know? |
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| Author: | MadMike [ Wed Apr 03, 2013 2:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Power steering question. Opinions welcome |
The Charlynn Torque Generators are rack killers, don't care what you say. It transmits a zero compliance torque through the pinion gear and the rack. If you hit something and the Charlynn doesn't give, something has to. Yeah you might bounce off something several times and think nothing about it but that rack is taking the abuse. The rack is only going to take so much and soon it's time to get another one. With the servo and cylinder system the servo and ram works through the rack plate and not the pinion gear. Depending on the front end weight and what angle the front beam was mounted in, determines on how easy the steering will be. Sweet servos come in different sizes. The smaller the number of the servo the smaller the input needs to be to move the steering, they go from .185 up to .320. The .185 means one handed almost no effort steering the .320 means both hands with moderate effort. |
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| Author: | davehix [ Wed Apr 03, 2013 5:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Power steering question. Opinions welcome |
Odyknuck wrote: davehix wrote: I've had both servo and ram and a charlynn . for the woods i like the charlynn . but i think the servo ram set up would be better for the street. Why, curious minds want to know? Cause the charlynn seems to be a little touchy? Real easy to turn compared to ram servo in my experience. |
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| Author: | fortydegnorth [ Wed Apr 03, 2013 5:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Power steering question. Opinions welcome |
When I was using the stock Ford pump my ram/servo was definitely power but it wasn't real easy to turn, especially if it was sitting still. With the Sweet pump at 1300psi it is much easier. I think pressure has a lot to do with the amount of assist you get, even with the different servo ratings. |
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| Author: | davehix [ Wed Apr 03, 2013 5:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Power steering question. Opinions welcome |
What's the differents if you have to buy a rack or got to buy a new servo? How many servos go bad ? Steve how many have you replaced?????? I got a year on mine and my rack doesn't have a more play right now then when I put it on. MadMike wrote: The Charlynn Torque Generators are rack killers, don't care what you say. It transmits a zero compliance torque through the pinion gear and the rack. If you hit something and the Charlynn doesn't give, something has to. Yeah you might bounce off something several times and think nothing about it but that rack is taking the abuse. The rack is only going to take so much and soon it's time to get another one.
With the servo and cylinder system the servo and ram works through the rack plate and not the pinion gear. Depending on the front end weight and what angle the front beam was mounted in, determines on how easy the steering will be. Sweet servos come in different sizes. The smaller the number of the servo the smaller the input needs to be to move the steering, they go from .185 up to .320. The .185 means one handed almost no effort steering the .320 means both hands with moderate effort. |
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| Author: | MadMike [ Wed Apr 03, 2013 7:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Power steering question. Opinions welcome |
Dave you know that Ody is the exception to the rule. He has a 1 1/2 ton battle wagon that can break anything, you know that. I will tell you I NEVER replaced a servo on mine, 3 years running. Come talk to me at the end of this season, we'll see how tight your rack is then. It'll be a tight as my ex's .................... Part of the problem is Sweet's cylinder is a 1 1/8 or 1 1/4" piston, not enough for slow off road stuff we do. A Howe cylinder is a 2" piston much better suited for what we do. |
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| Author: | Red Barron [ Wed Apr 03, 2013 7:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Power steering question. Opinions welcome |
Mike, Are you referring to the Ram when you say the sweet has a single and the Howe has two? I have been researching the Sweet Servo and Pump and have found some decent prices on used servos have not found a pump as of yet thought. I imagine it best to buy the ram new. |
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| Author: | giveitagallon [ Wed Apr 03, 2013 8:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Power steering question. Opinions welcome |
Let's not forget the ram need to be plated in real good or you will rip it off your frame . The s10 jeep gearbox works great and I have never heard of one going bad . I'm running the charlynn and rack setup on my car but can't give any personal opinion exept it collects dust nice . |
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| Author: | davehix [ Wed Apr 03, 2013 8:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Power steering question. Opinions welcome |
I'm not saying g your not right Mike. I'm just say my opinion. I got a good deal on a couple charlynns so that's what I'm using. If it junks my rack I'll buy a new one. I know it can't be easy on it cause there is no feedback hell I could probably drive it without a steering wheel. Its that easy to turn. But there is nothing like driving something with power steering . And Red I would buy a new servo or call sweet they sell remanufactured ones. You buy a used one and it could be junk. I liked my ram servo setup but wanted to try something different. MadMike wrote: Dave you know that Ody is the exception to the rule. He has a 1 1/2 ton battle wagon that can break anything, you know that. I will tell you I NEVER replaced a servo on mine, 3 years running. Come talk to me at the end of this season, we'll see how tight your rack is then. It'll be a tight as my ex's ....................
Part of the problem is Sweet's cylinder is a 1 1/8 or 1 1/4" piston, not enough for slow off road stuff we do. A Howe cylinder is a 2" piston much better suited for what we do. |
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| Author: | vwtravis [ Wed Apr 03, 2013 8:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Power steering question. Opinions welcome |
MickeyMouse wrote: People who have power steering love it and swear by it.. However, I never had an issue with my rack.. Same here |
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| Author: | davehix [ Wed Apr 03, 2013 9:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Power steering question. Opinions welcome |
Its not about having problems with the rack . Its about comfort and us old guys like to be comfortable.   vwtravis wrote: MickeyMouse wrote: People who have power steering love it and swear by it.. However, I never had an issue with my rack.. Same here |
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| Author: | MadMike [ Wed Apr 03, 2013 9:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Power steering question. Opinions welcome |
No, don't buy a servo used. Sweet does a re manufactured servo, and for the $$, it's a good deal. Not sure what you mean Red?? The Sweet ram and the Howe ram are both duel acting pistons and theirs only one cylinder for both of them. I wouldn't have a buggy without power steering, that and suspension seats. |
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| Author: | Odyknuck [ Wed Apr 03, 2013 10:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Power steering question. Opinions welcome |
Mike I believe he is thinking you meant 2 Howe rams and not the 2" diameter piston in one Howe ram. I did not have good luck with the smaller diameter Sweet rams and the #185 Servo with the 750# front end weight weight and larger tires I am runnning . I am now running the 2" Howe ram and a #220 Servo and it is holding up better. |
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| Author: | rockrockets1 [ Sat Apr 13, 2013 11:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Power steering question. Opinions welcome |
Here we go ....I ran a char-lynn on my 2000 lb chain drive threw a saco rack for over 12 years and as far as I know it is still on my old buggy ! And I ran a char-lynn on my wife's buggy threw a elcheepo rack for over 14 years and as far as I know it is still on Keven Thomas CD .And when I built my wife's buggy it was a conventional buggy with 4 adjusters on a widened stock front end until she plowed into a flat wall and folded it in half so I put a chromoly 6 over front beam in it and CD and still used the same rack. And trust me ain't no body no harder on a buggy than my wife 
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