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steering brake problems STILL
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Author:  hillaholic [ Tue May 18, 2010 1:29 am ]
Post subject:  steering brake problems STILL
Can anyone tell me how to get less movement out of my steering brakes?

This is what I’m running
Just rear brakes
3/4” cnc master cylinder
2lb Wilwood residual valve
5/8” cnc dual handle steering brake
4 piston (1.75”) Wilwood calipers
2 brass T’s off the back of the steering brake with 2 brake light switches
All solid lines except to 8” stainless flex lines
Everything has been pressure bled.

I get about 4” of travel with my steering brakes. I rebuilt them last year and no help. I tried to turn the plunger stops in more on the steering brakes, that helped but then if I hit my steering brake and then the foot brake it will lock up, I have to hit the foot pedal to release. I backed the plunger stops out to try to stop the brakes from locking up and they still lock up. If I back them out anymore I will be pulling the steering brake 5-6”.

Any and all help is welcome because I’m about to throw the steering brakes out and put rollers on the tree bars. :evil:
Author:  rip-it [ Tue May 18, 2010 6:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: steering brake problems STILL
You just described my exact problem; I have the same set up except no residual valves and a single handle cutter. I did the same thing with adjusting my plungers on the cutter. I got it to a happy medium with about 3in of travel and no more locking up. I suppose it’s ok now but not happy. :evil:


It still holds just a little pressure on the right side just enough to trigger the brake light. If I move my cutter back and forth it goes out, and if adjust my cutter plunger back any more I get to much travel. Sorry this is no help. But you’re not the only one with this problem.
:( :?:
Author:  Firebug [ Tue May 18, 2010 7:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: steering brake problems STILL
Are you removing the calipers and squeezing the pistons in with C-clamps when bleeding? This is what finally got mine working.
Author:  rip-it [ Tue May 18, 2010 7:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: steering brake problems STILL
How would that help please explain? Air rises no matter what right? My bleeders are vertical?
:?:
Author:  Firebug [ Tue May 18, 2010 7:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: steering brake problems STILL
rip-it wrote:
How would that help please explain? Air rises no matter what right? My bleeders are vertical?
:?:


The air is broken into tiny bubbles that will hide in very small places unless squeezed out. The tiny bubbles will rise but get caught in spots. I never had done this till told to and it did the trick for me.
Author:  rip-it [ Tue May 18, 2010 7:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: steering brake problems STILL
Well it's worth a try, so I'll find out tonight. I hope it works for hillaholic too! Sorry to high jack his post! :?
Author:  hillaholic [ Tue May 18, 2010 11:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: steering brake problems STILL
yep I just did that and no change.
Author:  Crambo [ Tue May 18, 2010 12:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: steering brake problems STILL
I'm like that guy on the old western, i read all this in a book somewhere so don't blame me if its wrong :mrgreen: . For disc brakes 3/4 steering brakes are recommended, willwoods have a lot of fluid with 4 pistons, 5/8 takes longer to move enough fluid, it maybe easier to pull once you get there but it will take longer. Also, if you don't get them mounted straight the rotor will constantly push the pistons back in, causing you to have to pump them back out. I have seen it come down to a fitting leaking, CNC recommends you locktite ALL connections and fittings. not the Red stuff, it takes heat to get it off :oops: , use the green i think, i still use the red cause thats what we have at work. Also like firebug said they do need to be straight up and down to be bleed, i know somebody knows somebody who bleeds them with the bleeder pointed toward the ground :shock: , but us normal folk don't have that kind of good luck. hope you get'em fixed.
Author:  RailHomie [ Tue May 18, 2010 12:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: steering brake problems STILL
Yeah, I suspect it's due to what Crambo said. From what I've seen on the net, the 5/8" cutters are made for use with drum brakes. And like he said, drum brakes have much smaller hydraulic cylinders in them.

I have 5/8 cutters too, and Sentra brakes :/
Author:  rip-it [ Wed May 19, 2010 6:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: steering brake problems STILL
Yep. NO change after using c clamp method. :roll: I had the cheap dual piston calipers on before I put the wilwoods on they worked ok but could not lock up the tires nearly as good. There are no leaks at all in the lines and also running a ¾ cutter. Not locking up at all any more, but like I said, brake light stays on until I move cutter back and forth. I guess I will have to back the plunger out a little more and live with the travel in the cutter. Good luck Hillaholic. See you in Wellsville some time! 8)
Author:  PhillipM [ Wed May 19, 2010 6:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: steering brake problems STILL
Drill another hole slightly further up the levers and mount the rods onto that, space the cylinders up to suit.
Author:  rip-it [ Wed May 19, 2010 7:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: steering brake problems STILL
So you’re saying raise the pivot point upper plunger on the handle and lower the pivot point on the lower plunger with out moving the handle it self correct? :?: If I do that wont the plungers be on an angle and wear the seals or they have a little ball and socket for some flex? :? This is a single handle cutter. But I think I'm following you if you’re talking about a dual handle. Hillaholic there’s you too much travel fix I think. :!:
Author:  kybuggy1 [ Wed May 19, 2010 8:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: steering brake problems STILL
I think I know what PhilipM was talking about, shortens the throw on the handle and therefore you could run more slack in the rods. But it'd be hard to make it work on single handles.


If you can get good brakes while sittin in the shop, but then get too much cutter travel and or "one pumpers" on the foot after you ride a little bit, it could be warped rotors. Mine did it once and it really doesnt take as much as you'd think to warp them, especially the chinese metal-having junk $55-$60 one piece porsche style ones that seem to be all that is available.

If you cant get it down to 2" of handle travel in the shop, you most likely got hardware issues or small air leak. 3/4 bore minimum on the cutters and m/c both and an rpv pretty much mandatory with discs. Like Crambo said, thread sealer (I like to use teflon pipedope) helps alot to prevent tiny air leaks. Rebleeding as soon as you get home from a ride, or even at camp, can help get out the air bubbles that are otherwise settling into places where they dont wanna push out. I've always managed to improve brand new systems by bleeding them after a ride or two. For some reason, Koko's brakes (with EVERYTHING brand new wilwood and a billet Neal cutter) wouldnt bleed worth a crap with a power bleeder, bled them the old fashioned way and they are great .

Flushing the brake fluid on a system thats been together awhile can help sometimes too. Brake fluid DOES wear out eventually (or gets too contaminated). I always wanted to try the silicone fluid, its water resisitant and easier on all the seals in the system, but its kinda pricey.
Author:  volksdude2007 [ Tue Jun 29, 2010 9:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: steering brake problems STILL
i run dual handle cnc cutters no residual valve and drum front brakes with rear disc brakes calipers off a kia optima i think my cutters are 5/8 bore and all i have to do is touch it and they lock up either side i have heard several times to get 3/4 bore for disc brakes but mine has been working fine for me :D all except for my back passenger tire locking up occassionaly but think i solved that problem
Author:  Dave Winterburn [ Mon Jul 26, 2010 1:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: steering brake problems STILL
I know this post is a little late. But, shim the cutting brake cylinders so that the out put lines are higher than the rest of the body. I also put a bungy cord on the handles pulling them, less cylinder volume to try and displace the air from that way. Pump them up once you think the air is gone. Try again next day or so.
Author:  nitro_mudder [ Mon Jul 26, 2010 10:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: steering brake problems STILL
I have always had some extra squish in my cutters. When I changed out my rear bearings finally it all went away. If there is any play it will open the calipers right up.
Author:  hillaholic [ Tue Jul 27, 2010 10:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: steering brake problems STILL
I found out the problem was bent stub axles. I don’t know how I bent them but they caused the rotors to move and open up the calipers, causing more movement to lock the brakes.
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